elbobo Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I'm still baffled by Warren dropping that much, she was hammered the way Harris and Biden were prior to their drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 40 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Well the dream was nice while it lasted (both America as a whole and Warren as a candidate): Warren tanks and Buttigieg surges. Biden stays in lead. And bad news for M4A and progressive politics as a whole: The right-wing infobubble (fueled now in part by Russian subterfuge implicitly supported by the right-wing) is basically impenetrable. Man, the US is really fucked. The right-wing infobubble isn't what's brought down M4A in polling. It's now being debated. People know it means the elimination of crappy private insurance but are used to crappy private insurance. The popularity is down but the fact that it's even at a third is damned impressive on its own considering how ambitious a plan it is. And we have fakers like Buttigieg who try to triangulate with a Medicare-For-All-Who-Want-It-Plan, which means it's worked to change the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: The right-wing infobubble (fueled now in part by Russian subterfuge implicitly supported by the right-wing) is basically impenetrable. Man, the US is really fucked. The infobubble can be really seen clearly with polling numbers on impeachment. You can clearly see around 35% of Americans are completely locked into Hannity's evening propaganda show and other similar right wing info sources. 2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: The right-wing infobubble isn't what's brought down M4A in polling. It's now being debated. People know it means the elimination of crappy private insurance but are used to crappy private insurance. The popularity is down but the fact that it's even at a third is damned impressive on its own considering how ambitious a plan it is. And we have fakers like Buttigieg who try to triangulate with a Medicare-For-All-Who-Want-It-Plan, which means it's worked to change the conversation. I agree the right wing infobubble didn't take down M4A. I think Warren did a poor job of defending it by initially ignoring questions about how she would pay for it as other candidates attacked it. I would point out that if all the other Democratic candidates can successful cast doubt on it, Republicans would probably be able to do more damage to support during a general when they deploy their war chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Massdriver said: The infobubble can be really seen clearly with polling numbers on impeachment. You can clearly see around 35% of Americans are completely locked into Hannity's evening propaganda show and other similar right wing info sources. I agree the right wing infobubble didn't take down M4A. I think Warren did a poor job of defending it by initially ignoring questions about how she would pay for it as other candidates attacked it. I would point out that if all the other Democratic candidates can successful cast doubt on it, Republicans would probably be able to do more damage to support during a general when they deploy their war chest. On the other hand, it doesn't have unified support. If Warren or Sanders is the nominee, there will be more money put into defending it and making a unified health care pitch in general. I also think Sanders is a good salesman for these kinds of programs because the shortcoming he has compared to Warren -- inability to parse out policy details as well as she can -- is also a strength of his by distilling why a program is essential for a first world country in a very easy-to-follow way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Stockholm syndrome should really be renamed to American Private Insurance Syndrome, Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 57 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: On the other hand, it doesn't have unified support. If Warren or Sanders is the nominee, there will be more money put into defending it and making a unified health care pitch in general. I also think Sanders is a good salesman for these kinds of programs because the shortcoming he has compared to Warren -- inability to parse out policy details as well as she can -- is also a strength of his by distilling why a program is essential for a first world country in a very easy-to-follow way. But it's an uphill battle. Maybe Sanders could convince people that it is a good thing, but maybe not. It's not clear either way. This is only one poll though. I haven't seen M4A poll this low anywhere else unless I missed it. This could be an outlier. The Sanders/Butti support levels are also out of step with other recent polls. A politico poll just released had Sanders in second and it was pretty recent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: However...this hinges on the idea that as taxes go up (for M4A), companies will increase wages as they no longer have to compensate with medical plans. But let's be realistic - if most American employers were told that they could save $10,000 per year per employee, do we think that they would give 100% of that money back to the employees? No, they would pocket most of it because at this point the capital class is hell-bent on stripping the country of its copper wiring before it all falls apart anyway. Can confirm, I tried to negotiate a higher wage since I was going waive the healthcare benefits, didn't even get a counter offer, they saved $4,600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 This would go over well. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Quote Politico also described the relationship between Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Obama as “famously complicated.” The former president reportedly said in a private conversation that if Democrats supported her when she was considering a 2016 run, it would serve as a rejection of his economic policies. I guess Barack is a Mayo Pete kinda guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 39 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: I guess Barack is a Mayo Pete kinda guy. Quote Obama was deeply skeptical about the prospects of Mayor Pete Buttigieg. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2019/11/26/barack-obama-2020-democrats-candidates-biden-073025 He may agree with him on some issues, but it doesn't seem like he thinks he could win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 That Bloom BOOM! Warren is also the only candidate widely known that is positive on Favorability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Tulsi is less liked than Trump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePi Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 7 hours ago, MarSolo said: Tulsi is less liked than Trump? Mathematically she would have to be. No Democrats like her and Republicans won't like anyone more than Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 That’s odd since they like to bring up the fact that a republican ended slavery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 How Kamala Harris' campaign unraveled Quote “This is my third presidential campaign and I have never seen an organization treat its staff so poorly,” Ms. Mehlenbacher wrote, assailing Mr. Rodriguez and Ms. Harris’s sister, Maya, the campaign chairwoman, for laying off aides with no notice. “With less than 90 days until Iowa we still do not have a real plan to win.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, SaysWho? said: How Kamala Harris' campaign unraveled I have no idea why this isn't down to 4 candidates as it is, Warren, Sanders, Biden, and Buttigeig are the only ones that move up or down at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: I have no idea why this isn't down to 4 candidates as it is, Warren, Sanders, Biden, and Buttigeig are the only ones that move up or down at all. Gotta keep some people on deck since a well timed "boo" could immediately cut that field in half. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-no-democratic-front-runner/ That's from October 2003. Kerry was in 5th. There's a non-zero chance that the Democratic nominee isn't one of the top 4 right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Jose said: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-no-democratic-front-runner/ That's from October 2003. Kerry was in 5th. There's a non-zero chance that the Democratic nominee isn't one of the top 4 right now. People also eventually forget who was in the lead. Edwards was competitive in Iowa in 2008 and could have won. Romney was doing very well and Huckabee fuckabeed him in Iowa. I do remember these names, but only because I was impressed by how much they imploded. Clark 12% Gephardt 10% Lieberman 9% Dean 9% Kerry 8% Moseley-Braun 4% Sharpton 3% Graham 3% Edwards 2% Kucinich 1% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Jose said: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-no-democratic-front-runner/ That's from October 2003. Kerry was in 5th. There's a non-zero chance that the Democratic nominee isn't one of the top 4 right now. Not really comparable, the top 5 add up to 50%, the top 4 today add up to 80+% of the current group, then its 10 candidates getting the last 20%, candidates literally have to start dying to make up that kind of ground, we have just over 2 months to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 5 hours ago, PaladinSolo said: Not really comparable, the top 5 add up to 50%, the top 4 today add up to 80+% of the current group, then its 10 candidates getting the last 20%, candidates literally have to start dying to make up that kind of ground, we have just over 2 months to go. Yup. The odds that the winner comes out of this top 4 is *significantly* higher than in the 2004 contest. Biden alone has a better shot of winning than the entire rest of the field starting with #5 combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Liz wants in on the dumb shit, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 CRYING BILLIONAIRES Good god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Steve Bullock drops out of race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Now go win that Senate race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbobo Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 he is not running for the senate either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, elbobo said: he is not running for the senate either Then what use is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Sestak also dropped out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 I've been updating the OP throughout this primary season. From the OP: DROPPED OUT Bill de Blasio - Mayor of New York City Steve Bullock - Governor of Montana Kirsten Gillibrand - US Senator from New York Mike Gravel - Former Senator from Alaska John Hickenlooper - Former Governor of Colorado Jay Inslee - Governor of Washington Wayne Messam - Mayor from Miramar, Florida Seth Moulton - US Representative from Massachusetts Richard Ojeda - Former State Senator from West Virginia Beto O'Rourke - Former US Representative from Texas Tim Ryan - US Representative from Ohio Mark Sanford (R) - Former Governor from South Carolina Joe Sestak - Former U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania Eric Swalwell - U.S. Representative from California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 4 hours ago, SaysWho? said: Steve Bullock drops out of race 9 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: Sestak also dropped out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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