Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

[legend]

34 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

I think the smartest wealth tax pitch would combine it with a reduction in income taxes.

 

I.e., pitch it as a way to shift the tax burden off of labor productivity and onto economic rent.  That would boost productivity and also lower the overall cost structure of the economy, making the country's exports more competitive, and ultimately leading to higher growth.

 

But I don't think that idea would go down well with the Democratic Socialists.

 

Why don't you think it would go down well with democratic socialists? (Honest question)

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just now, mclumber1 said:

 

A wealth tax is unconstitutional.  Unless you pass an amendment that allows it, of course.  Still a dumb idea that doesn't actually address the issue of income inequality.  It's not even a good tool to fund government.  

The idea is trading a wealth tax for lower income tax on high income earners, which is just dumb as hell. I've already stated I know about the constitutional issues regarding a wealth tax. 

 

But I agree taxation doesn't address the root cause of inequality, but you won't like the solutions for it. But it does address a symptom of it.

 

That said it's worth repeating, The wealthy already pay less in taxes than you do

[Anathema-]

So weird how the constitution gives power to Congress to levy taxes but somehow rich people can't be taxed without a constitutional amendment.

[Massdriver]

You don't need a wealth tax to tax wealth. Here are some constitutional (and more efficient) ways to tax wealth:

 

1) Tax unrealized capital gains upon a rich person's death

2) Raise estate taxes on estates over 20 million to 85% and beef up the IRS while doing so

3) Implement a consumption tax on luxury goods that the wealthy purchase

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The idea is trading a wealth tax for lower income tax on high income earners, which is just dumb as hell. I've already stated I know about the constitutional issues regarding a wealth tax. 

 

But I agree taxation doesn't address the root cause of inequality, but you won't like the solutions for it. But it does address a symptom of it.

 

That said it's worth repeating, The wealthy already pay less in taxes than you do

I didn't say lowering income taxes just for high earners; it ought to be pitched along with an overall reduction in income taxes on all brackets.  And, if I had my druthers, it'd be paired with a land tax.

 

Again the point is to tax rent, and to untax labor productivity.  Rent is not 'economically productive' income; it extracts from the economic surplus rather than contributes. (thus the intent behind Keynes' well-known suggestion to 'euthanize the rentier')  Income produced by labor productivity, however, generally--not always, but generally--adds to the surplus.   The greater the surplus, the better off we're going to be and the lower cost things are going to be, even with just modest redistributive mechanisms in place.

 

Also, reducing the 'empty prices' (as the classical economists called them) produced by rent extraction and increasing the productivity of labor engineers an overall reduction in the cost structure of the economy.  Indeed, this was the gist of the program that the classical economists (Smith, Mill, Ricardo, Say, Veblen and others) favored--lower the cost of doing business by taxing away economic rent and providing infrastructure at cost or on a subsidized basis (to avoid the rent-extraction that occurs when infrastructure is privatized) so that you can bring prices in-line with the cost of production and undersell your competitors on the international market. 

1 hour ago, legend said:

 

Why don't you think it would go down well with democratic socialists? (Honest question)

 

 

I've found they're generally averse to untaxing income, even when it's part of a larger move to shift the burden of taxation onto rent and untax labor productivity.  I think they see it as some kind of retreat in the class war, when it's really supposed to be about achieving the most mutually beneficial, economically productive tax regime possible. (But it’s still just a general trend—I’m not saying they’re all of one mind on the matter)

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, Anathema- said:

So weird how the constitution gives power to Congress to levy taxes but somehow rich people can't be taxed without a constitutional amendment.

It's almost like our system was set up by the wealthy to protect the wealthy at the expense of all else

[RedSoxFan9]

 

media people love her

[Anathema-]

 

We were talking about this here right? Turns out the nyt felt righteous enough to come down on secretary Clinton for leaping to conclusions without facts by leaping to conclusions without facts.

 

And tulsi wound up telling on herself anyway. What a fucking jamoke.

[Massdriver]

@Signifyin(g)Monkey,

 

I would like a land value tax as well, but it would also face constitutional questions if done on the Federal level. 

[mclumber1]

2 hours ago, Anathema- said:

So weird how the constitution gives power to Congress to levy taxes but somehow rich people can't be taxed without a constitutional amendment.

 

The 16th amendment allows the federal government to levy taxes on income, not on wealth.  

[Anathema-]

7 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

The 16th amendment allows the federal government to levy taxes on income, not on wealth.  

 

The sixteenth amendment shouldn't have been necessary. It only corrects one narrow exclusion the Supreme Court wrongly set out. 

[Massdriver]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

It's almost like our system was set up by the wealthy to protect the wealthy at the expense of all else

@Anathema-, I just gave 3 ways rich people can be soaked. 

[SaysWho?]

 

[Anathema-]

32 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

@Anathema-, I just gave 3 ways rich people can be soaked. 

 

Mine was more of a snarky response to the anti-taxites, sorry if you felt included.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

 

[Jason]

[elbobo]

11 hours ago, Massdriver said:

@Signifyin(g)Monkey,

 

I would like a land value tax as well, but it would also face constitutional questions if done on the Federal level. 

 

I pay WAY more than enough to rent my house from the government as it is I don't need any more property taxes 

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

7 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

 

Wtf is she thinking?  Even jumping into the race and losing would increase turnout for Trump ten times over.  For the love of god Hillary, sit this one out!

[Anathema-]

She's not running, Christ. Can we just leave her alone? I'm really sick of people needing to validate their feelings about her.

[PaladinSolo]

 

[Massdriver]

3 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Wtf is she thinking?  Even jumping into the race and losing would increase turnout for Trump ten times over.  For the love of god Hillary, sit this one out!

She's thinking Biden is weak and babbling nonsense, Bernie and Warren are too far to the left for the general, and Buttigieg can't earn the black vote. She is also thinking it's too late to jump in and probably won't. She also has a lot of rich Democratic donors urging her to consider a run.

[Massdriver]

2 hours ago, PaladinSolo said:

 

I don't think head to head match ups during the primary season are very useful. I think that's the conventional wisdom too.

[Joe]

9 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I don't think head to head match ups during the primary season are very useful. I think that's the conventional wisdom too.

 

They aren't. But it at least disproves the notion that these are horrendous candidates.

[Jason]

4 hours ago, elbobo said:

 

I pay WAY more than enough to rent my house from the government as it is I don't need any more property taxes 

 

Land value tax is generally mostly about removing the incentives to keep property unimproved. E.g. surface parking lots are attractive from a property tax perspective because you haven't really done much to make the land more valuable and it thus doesn't get a large property tax bill. This is bad when it's, say, a way around property taxes in the middle of a bustling downtown.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

36 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Land value tax is generally mostly about removing the incentives to keep property unimproved. E.g. surface parking lots are attractive from a property tax perspective because you haven't really done much to make the land more valuable and it thus doesn't get a large property tax bill. This is bad when it's, say, a way around property taxes in the middle of a bustling downtown.

Iirc your state/county/city already has a value for the land and the property separately, you just get taxed for both at once, and the improvements carry most of the weight

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

M4A polling in WI

 

 

(There'd still be some private insurance but let's not go there)

[Joe]

I mean single payer is clearly not going to pass this time around even if Sanders or Warren get elected, but you gotta plant that fucking flag. If you start in the middle, you have no shot.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

So long as the private insurance industry has a grip on the Senate (read: the forseeable future, even with a mass worker movement as Bernie wants to work towards) there won't be so much as an actual public option, as the insurance industry puts a public option (no matter what that actually means) in the same industry-destroying bucket at M4A. They're already pushing ads out there that say so, this isn't conjecture on my part.

[RedSoxFan9]

 

[SaysWho?]

2020 race over: Judge Judy endorses Michael Bloomberg

 

Quote

I believe that if your political party has lost an election — either to elect a mayor, governor or president of the United States — you are obligated to spend the next four years finding the best possible candidate to beat the incumbent. There used to be a preponderance of folks on the Democratic side who understood the need to elect a centrist candidate, someone who could build coalitions and reach across the aisle. But in this campaign, candidates are fighting to out-left each other with pie-in-the-sky proposals for free money and free education. Everybody gets a thousand dollars, everybody gets free college tuition. Everybody gets, everybody gets, but where does all this getting come from?

We need a no-nonsense president who’s sane, competent and honest, someone who can’t be bought and has no skin in the game. As he showed during 12 years as mayor in New York City Hall, Michael Bloomberg fits the bill. He’s a self-made billionaire, a man who made a lot of money in a very straightforward, transparent way. He’s an advocate for strong action on climate change. He believes in reasonable gun control, like the vast majority of Americans. He believes in making certain that the criminal element in our society — which scars the life of so many — is treated firmly, swiftly and fairly.

 

Quote

I realize you may vehemently disagree with me, and that’s OK. We all know that spirited debate is part of what makes this country great, and so different from other nations. But let’s keep it civil. As fellow Americans, we should respect each other’s voices. If someone expresses an opinion in a thoughtful, well-behaved manner, those who disagree should do so in the same manner.

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

12 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Everybody gets, everybody gets, but where does all this getting come from?

Well, Your Honor....You

[PaladinSolo]

So much for the "Warren is doomed she doesn't know how shes going to pay for M4A."

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

23 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

So much for the "Warren is doomed she doesn't know how shes going to pay for M4A."

If you don't get 15% support at a given caucus site, your supporters have to go to someone else. Always important to remember

[Joe]

41 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

So much for the "Warren is doomed she doesn't know how shes going to pay for M4A."

 

Yeah, that was bullshit and the polling never reflected that narrative that was pushed down our throats by the media.

 

Btw, nice on following Elliot Morris. He's really fucking good.

[Massdriver]

The only way Buttigieg could hope to have a prayer is if he took Iowa and New Hampshire.